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Well PDC10 is over (note: head on over to the PDC site to view all the sessions).  There was a lot of talk about Internet Explorer 9 (and another preview update) as well as general web development.  There had been some reports on the 2nd day of PDC commenting about the shift in strategy about Silverlight.

You may have read the initial story from Mary Jo Foley which led to the tsunami of information about Silverlight being done, over and killed except for the Windows Phone 7 platform.  Other popular news outlets picked up on the story, reporting on it and adding their own, yet unconfirmed, statements to the situation. 

Please take a moment and click here to read the update from Bob Muglia about Silverlight.

Many of you have emailed me personally asking for information.  I sincerely appreciate your candor and contact in reaching out.  I’ve strived to be a transparent individual and an approachable one as well within the beast that is Microsoft.  I’ve never hid my contact information and do my best (not always successful) at responding to inquiries.

Please be sure to read Bob’s message above.  It re-affirms our commitment to Silverlight.  A number of us wanted to share our feelings immediately upon this news storm, but wanted to ensure that you heard it from the top.  I’ll add my own personal commentary here…

One email I got (in response to all this news hype) was from a CIO expressing concern about his decision to use Silverlight in a multi-million dollar application investment he was making.  He wanted to know if his bet would be a good one.  My response had nothing to do about which technologies are better than the other.  Here is basically what I shared:

This past year I decided to take a deeper role in the engineering side of Silverlight.  In making this decision I had to relocate to Redmond.  This involved me relocating my family away from our comfort zone and having to start completely new.  It was perhaps the biggest personal change in my life I’ve made yet.  My kids left their friends, as did we.  My wife left her close knit family in AZ.  My wife stopped a business she was just getting great momentum on before this decision.  We sold our house at a significant personal financial loss.  We moved to an area where home prices didn’t fall like we were used to and thus aren’t in a position of buying power.  You’ll forgive me if I say that no software project has made more of a bet on Silverlight than I have personally this year.

I don’t write this to ask anyone to have pity on me that I lost money on my house…I’m a big boy and understand what consequences mean.  I write this to hit more at the heart that I’m personally invested in the success of Silverlight.  I uprooted my family and a comfortable lifestyle to work closer with it.  I’ve made a big bet on Silverlight.  I hope to see it continue to grow.  I don’t have a crystal ball and nobody can tell the future in 5-10 years, but in the near term that I can tell you we’re invested in Silverlight.

Here’s some good reading:

Now, we’ve got a team busy working on the next version of Silverlight so we better get back to work and away from this distraction.


This work is licensed under a Creative Commons Attribution By license.


11/1/2010 11:59 AM | # re: Silverlight is dead. Long live Silverlight!
Crisp and Clear!..SL rocks!
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11/1/2010 12:45 PM | # re: Silverlight is dead. Long live Silverlight!
Such a relief!!! SL it's my only way to get my software on the Mac
11/1/2010 1:09 PM | # re: Silverlight is dead. Long live Silverlight!
great to hear from you than anyone else. just can't wait for the next version of Silverlght..it seems like Silverlight will be true cross desktop platform than cross mobile platform. otherwise ppl would be developing great Silverlight application for Andriod devices with free tools from microsoft (visual studio express and expression blend).
11/1/2010 1:15 PM | # re: Silverlight is dead. Long live Silverlight!
Hi Tim,

Thank you for writing about that issue, even if I am not sure if you had to.
I understand very well your position. That was a great answer to give on this issue.

I read Muglia's response. However, I must say I am not convinced what exactly he meant when he said that.
You cannot say "shifting your priorities" unless you mean that.
I know already Silverlight cannot die any time soon because of the WP7 device.
However, I am not sure what it will really happen for the desktop. We know that Silverlight desktop runs on the mobile. It's almost the same framework.
However, in future I somehow feel that might change.

Again, I am still not sure what that meant. I guess we will all find out :)

There are many things still to do in Silverlight. I love the framework but there are features still missing when compared to Flash. As a dev framework however, it is by far better then Flash: C# and VisualStudio.

What if Silverlight could kick some ass by offering tools to convert your Silverlight app to Javascript + HTML5 app?

Comparison with HTML5 only makes sense when it's about Silverlight in the browser. OOB mode has a different purpose, has different features and purpose.
This is were Silverlight really excels I think.
I wish I could see more features for Silverlight OOB.



11/1/2010 1:29 PM | # re: Silverlight is dead. Long live Silverlight!
I literally became dizzy when I heard this BS regarding Silverlight. I'm heavily invested in this amazing technology, and I'm glad you took the time to put out this fire.

I knew you'd come to the rescue.

Thanks Tim!
11/1/2010 1:48 PM | # re: Silverlight is dead. Long live Silverlight!
Thanks for the update Tim. Bob Muglia's post will go a long way in restoring confidence to the worried masses of SL developers. I'm sure all the bloggers/reporters who were decent enough to not title their post "Silverlight Is Dead" are writing up their new post titled "Silverlight Update: Your Misinterpretation Of My Insinuation". Restoring confidence to the IT departments of our future customers could be a larger battle at this point. I'm envisioning a future sales pitch where I have to explain to a customer and their "IT guy" that Silverlight is not dead. Any chance that MSFT will bubble this story up past the blog section of silverlight.net? Long live Silverlight and Sir Paul.
11/1/2010 2:35 PM | # re: Silverlight is dead. Long live Silverlight!
I hadn't heard of this Bob Muddlhead before now, but can you personally thank him for ruining the next year or two of my life as I once again skill up on a new technology (Flash).
11/1/2010 3:03 PM | # re: Silverlight is dead. Long live Silverlight!
It's really unfortunate Tim that you will have to spend the next several months on damage control (because of the destruction this moron has done)...which will surely take some of your focus away from advancing the Silverlight platform.
11/1/2010 3:27 PM | # Silverlight dead? People not paying attention
Honestly the whole idea MSFT is abandoning Silverlight doesn't make sense in light of the facts. Is it because it wasn't mentioned at PDC? Well SL4 was just announced at Mix. Announcing SL5 at pdc would be nice and confusing ("oh i guess i should just wait").

Is it the attention to HTML5 and IE9? Do you expect MSFT to give up on browsers? They are going to have to lead the move to HTML5 or risk losing the browser battle. Sure, they may never have 90% share again but they have to regain market leadership... or why use Windows?
11/1/2010 4:06 PM | # re: Silverlight is dead. Long live Silverlight!
Funny to hear this crud... I just was thinking it was apple or google spreading stories to discredit the new windows phone before it comes out...
11/1/2010 4:12 PM | # re: Silverlight is dead. Long live Silverlight!
Hi Tim, thank you for this post. Like you I'm betting all my life, family and career on Silverlight and Microsoft products, including Azure. I put all my trust in Ms decisions on next releases about this technology (3D support, Android support, etc...).
I'm very sad for these childish errors in verbal communication.
If Muglia had been a my employee i would have fired him immediately!

The Silverlight ecosystem is THE BEST thing microsoft has done in these years. I know dozens of programmers switching to this technology even FOR ENTIRE WEBSITES using the skills for the phone, for desktop, and for the Mac.
It's a new clear start, powerful, and cool too.

But with this kind of disinformation coming directly from MS heads, you'll lose the trust of the developers like me. And if my projects in which i put all my money, hopes and 2 years of life/studies will fails cause the abandonment of such powerful technology, i'll leave all Microsoft products FOREVER and the object of all my life will be to encourage others to do the same.

So, now i'm afraid.
An since i'm still in time, even i don't want, i'll evaluate HTML5, Javascript, or Flash (i saw an Adobe conference video 2 days ago of a tool converting Flash to HTML5) even if I HATE JavaScript, DISLIKE CSS AND HTML and all the fragmentation that developing a website/app outside the MS ecosystem involves, waiting and hoping that the trust returns and go on with my projects or change the way.

My 2c
Frank
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11/1/2010 5:41 PM | # re: Silverlight is dead. Long live Silverlight!
I violently agree with Robert Lair, the Silverlight developer community uproar and other people who have posted comments above. This entire situation was like throwing an axe on your own feet. Things like this will create hurdles not from Google or Adobe or Apple but from Microsoft itself to hinder its own technology. This was so badly timed. Windows Phone 7 uses Silverlight for developing apps, businesses have recently embraced Silverlight for developing business applications, media companies were picking it up and just when everything seemed beautiful... an SVP from Microsoft (yes, Microsoft! Not Google or Adobe or Apple, but one of their own) comes charging with a sword (of words) to destroy everything!

CAN SOMEONE PLEASE RING MUGLIA AND SHOUT LOUD AND CLEAR: Silverlight is one of the brightest technology to come from Microsoft since its formation in 1975. So shut up and work to make Windows Server OS better. Can you get Windows Server to a market share of 70+% that Silverlight has captured in couple of years time, Mr. Muglia?!!

A senior Microsoft employee has made a terrible mistake and he should pay for this (needlessly getting negative press coverage at a critical time for Microsoft is not worthy of an SVP post).
11/1/2010 5:44 PM | # re: Silverlight is dead. Long live Silverlight!
Your post sounds like, yeah silverlight is dead , you are F-ed, and I'm also since I changed my life for a dying technology
11/1/2010 5:47 PM | # re: Silverlight is dead. Long live Silverlight!
Tim,
You being invested in SL really doesn't matter to my company. My company made a decision couple of years ago to build all their next-gen apps in SL and WPF. We have made a lot of investments based on our belief in MS's strategy at that time. Bob's statement at PDC and on the SL-team blog just makes us believe that MS will continue to invest in SL, but with a perspective of it being a platform for WP development.
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11/1/2010 6:05 PM | # re: Silverlight is dead. Long live Silverlight!
Tim: Can you please change the title of your blog post to: "Long live Silverlight!"

Please shift from the dead part...
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11/1/2010 6:12 PM | # re: Silverlight is dead. Long live Silverlight!
The doubt is not really about the commitment that Microsoft might make towards Silverlight either now or in the future, but the general doubt that any proprietary RIA, no matter how many features it may have vs. HTML5 will ever be able to reach across all platforms as Flash (almost) did.

Now would be a perfect time to move Silverlight in some form towards being an open standard in the same way that the .NET platform is, complete with a formal specification and patent grants. That is ultimately the only way that it will be able to survive in the HTML5 world in the long run. Silverlight as a free and open platform that would allow Windows and WPhone 7 apps to run on any device that permits open software standards would ultimately best serve MS interests in the long run as well.
11/1/2010 6:58 PM | # re: Silverlight is dead. Long live Silverlight!
The most graceful response to an ugly weekend of Silverlight and HTML commotion. Thank you.
11/1/2010 7:04 PM | # re: Silverlight is dead. Long live Silverlight!
Tim,

You are an honest and committed guy. But it is not us you have to plead to. Bob Muglia f..ed it up. He will have to do whatever it takes to fix it. And posting on SL team blog is not going to cut it.

Talk to _him_, write _him_ a letter - if SL is alive and well he will certainly spend more effort clearing up the confusion. And he will have to talk specifics, because current stuff reads like:

"We’re working hard on the next release of Silverlight" - not going to announce any features or dates, so we can put it on the back burner or have already done that.

"and it will continue to be cross-browser and cross-platform, and run on Windows and Mac." - no version for Android and iOS then.

11/1/2010 9:07 PM | # re: Silverlight is dead. Long live Silverlight!
Hi Tim, could you clarify this part of Bob's message: "...the world has changed. As a result, getting a single runtime implementation installed on every potential device is practically impossible."

Why is it "practically impossible" to get Silverlight on these devices, but it's apparently no problem with HTML5? Are there technical reasons/limitations with Silverlight, or is it just because Apple and Google won't allow it?
11/1/2010 10:52 PM | # re: Silverlight is dead. Long live Silverlight!
Tim, I honestly respect your personal integrity and skill, so I don't want to sound rude, but...

"Our top executives have stated their commitment to Silverlight as our client strategy. I wouldn't expect the core focus of Silverlight to be only mobile."

<Big laugh> Sounds like you don't know what the upper level guys are going to do either. "I wouldn't expect..." is not exactly 100% confidence producing.

When you talk about your personal sacrifices for SL, that just tells me you bought the original dream/story like the rest of us.

Vic Klien
11/1/2010 11:09 PM | # re: Silverlight is dead. Long live Silverlight!
It would be good to get some straight answers:

1. What is changed around SL stratgy? There was certainly a slip of tongue?
Is there a fight between Developer Division and Windows Division?
If you think JS/HTML5 is a replacement for Windows Client, MS will disappear
like DEC did. Why are you promoting HTML5 so much - HTML applications suck!

2. Your investment $s in WPF/SL are tiny. Instead of DevDiv/WinDiv territory,
you need to think about MS developers. Very few are writing to WinAPI (except
some device driver writers) - it is all Managed Code now. If you think managed
code sucks and HTML5 is the way to go, you need to have some contact with real
developers in the street - get out and talk to me.
Money from WinDiv should go to invest in WPF/SL. How many WPF only evangelist
do you employ? Why is WPF on a back seat?

3. WinAPI is retired. Please stop pushing IE as an application (DeanH).
It ain't so.

11/2/2010 4:57 AM | # re: Silverlight is dead. Long live Silverlight!
First off, from what I’ve read I don’t see Silverlight going anywhere, the real problem is this. When I go stand in front of a potential new client this week and say that we are continuing to move parts of the application to Silverlight to improve this or that, inevitably someone there will have read this headline and chime in about how Silverlight is dead and why are we moving to a dead technology (or something like that). Then I will need to spend the next 10 minutes of a demo explaining how Silverlight isn’t dead instead of having everyone just marvel at the work we have already done in Silverlight to move the app forward. Combine this with the fact that our competitors that are pitching them, who are still using asp.net/php technologies, will be quick to scare them about choosing us – because the fate of our core technology is so up in the air – thanks to Bob Muglia.
11/2/2010 5:37 AM | # re: Silverlight is dead. Long live Silverlight!
Tim,
Thank you for your sincere comments. I think everyone following this should recognize your personal committment and dedication.
The #1 problem for me in the wake of all this, as others have also suggested, is how to deal with clients who are scared away from Silverlight by the perception (real or imagined) that MS is pulling back from Silverlight. How are we supposed to convince them that MS is truly behind the technology? MS must do something to repair this perception, what exactly I don't know, but some very tangible and strong statement of support - other than "it's the way to develop WP7 apps".
11/2/2010 6:40 AM | # re: Silverlight is dead. Long live Silverlight!
Bob's post doesn't clear up anything. In the entire post the only place I can find the word "commit" is when he talks about HTML5:

"At Microsoft, we’re committed to building the world’s best implementation of HTML 5"
11/2/2010 8:34 AM | # re: Silverlight is dead. Long live Silverlight!
Four words: Super Bowl Silverlight commerical.

That would be a huge sign to the world that MS is truly committed to Silverlight and not just stringing everyone along.
11/2/2010 11:41 AM | # re: Silverlight is dead. Long live Silverlight!
Wow. Great. Javascript for my future fat client business apps. Who would have guessed?
11/2/2010 12:17 PM | # re: Silverlight is dead. Long live Silverlight!
Thanks very much Tim - a lot of us really appreciate your effort. But I'm afraid that even your very sincere sounding response (and most certainly Muglia's rather shallow sounding one) are a day late and a dollar short. Right now I've no idea of MS's real commitment to SL. No offence, but I'm frankly not sure that anyone at your level in MS does either. Kill decisions are typically made very high up a corporation, and engineers aren't generally invited into the boardroom to watch. So we've all got to read between the lines.

Muglia's response looks like it was written by his PR intern during a coffee break, and just doesn't cut it for a "mistake" of this magnitude. Either he doesn't understand what he's done, or he does. Either way, I'm terrified - I need to know SL6,7,8 are coming, and that coverage will keep growing strongly. A few months ago, this was the flagship development platform of the worlds largest software company, and now I'm reduced to trawling blogs for clues about its longevity. That's just not right. I've invested the last 2+ years of my life in building a complex silverlight project, but since this news broke I've been looking hard at a port to GWT. If I leave the MS ecosystem under these conditions, I'm gone for life.

To win back the confidence of guys like me will take more than talk. Please give us something concrete fast. Otherwise we won't be able to trust you on WP7 or Azure either. And that's exactly what you can't afford.
Sent from my iPad ;)
11/2/2010 12:56 PM | # re: Silverlight is dead. Long live Silverlight!
I am sorry to say, but Silverlight only has a future in video and a few niche visual intensive scenarios. HTML5/CSS3/JS advancements are going to reclaim the web's presentation layer as they rightly should. Silverlight died at version 2.

Tim, quite frankly, if it wasn't for you, I would have lost interest in silverlight long ago.
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11/2/2010 2:22 PM | # re: Silverlight is dead. Long live Silverlight!
this is sounding like a script...

johnpapa.net/silverlight/committed-to-silverlight/

11/2/2010 2:57 PM | # re: Silverlight is dead. Long live Silverlight!
Hi Tim,
It seems Bing Maps doesn't agree with you:

www.bing.com/.../...to-bird-s-eye-and-3d-maps.aspx

Really MS?, killing the Bing Silverlight control now?
S**t!
11/2/2010 3:30 PM | # re: Silverlight is dead. Long live Silverlight!
Forgive my prev hysterical comment.

The ActivX is going from Bing and not the Silverlight.

Sorry:)
11/2/2010 4:22 PM | # re: Silverlight is dead. Long live Silverlight!
At least your resume is still up-to-date since you moved to Redmond just recently. As for me I need to redo my resume with less emphasis on Silverlight.
11/2/2010 4:33 PM | # re: Silverlight is dead. Long live Silverlight!
Yes, clearly MS upper-management are not communicating down the chain to their people. SL looks to continue for a while yet but MS has let the cat out of the bag now and strategy seems to be shifting away from plug-ins. No doubt fresh ppts are already being worked up for HTML5 stories at the MIX.
11/2/2010 5:19 PM | # re: Silverlight is dead. Long live Silverlight!
MSFT, saying your committed is one thing, showing your committed is another. I think MSFT needs to show it at MIX11 and show it big. Not just on the WP7, but on the desktop. Its time for MSFT to show with action and deliverables that they will support Silverlight. Focusing so much on the WP7 to me has hurt the desktop. Show support on that area and show it big time. Show us market-share, show us by investing other products with it. Get TFS to use it, get SharePoint to use it more, get bing to use it more, get Hotmail to use it. Show us that you are willing to use your own product in other products. Its time show the world that MSFT isn't afraid of Silverlight.
11/2/2010 7:58 PM | # re: Silverlight is dead. Long live Silverlight!
Tim people are scared. Muglia response is not enough.
Please if anyone can contact MS heads directly, convince someone like Ballmer to publish an official post and clarify things with something like a timeline for the next 5 years of Sl development and a strong signal that we can use it for longlife projects and websites.
WP7 will fail if Silverlight will not ne improved or updated in the future, my company and thousand of others will NOT spend money in formation for an "only phone technology".
My fear is that from now to 2-3 years, after a weak SL5 or 6, the technology will be shutted off!

Adobe is creating a tool to convert Flash to html5/js/css3 IF the DEV wants so.
Flash is a standard de facto, so for me it's only for the fucking iOS.
Silverlight will reach 70-80% in 2011 becoming a standard de facto itself.

Please com'on with WP7, Android, Nokia meego, and blackberry OS, give a kick in the ass of Dell, LG, Samgung and others to product tablets and other gadgets so to decrease the iOs market share. Apple have "breaked the nuts" definitely!
Sorry for the language but i'm very angry.

We have to be able to decide what to use.
Personally i’m crying and going kill myself if i have to return to Javascript. Better to go to hoe the terrain.

Alex from Italy
11/2/2010 8:30 PM | # One ideea
If the target is not mainly enterprise, to help easier adoption Microsoft needs just to make some good free Silverlight games :)... Or free radio, free music, something interesting and free using silverlight. Just invest a bit smarter in some promotion. I feel like nothing was done in that area, some marketing needs to be done...
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11/2/2010 9:43 PM | # re: Silverlight is dead. Long live Silverlight!
Microsoft MUST NOT limit Silverlight to phones, enterprises and media apps. KEEP your original strategy on course. How has Adobe done this for 10 years? They don't care what Jobs (Apple) says - they have CONFIDENCE in their product and you MUST have in yours! Silverlight is the best "original" technology Microsoft has created in its history and Microsoft should promote it instead of the standards based HTML 5 - which needs no promotion/marketing anyway. This entire episode is absurd and Microsoft is to blame for this mess. Ask Ballmer to give a straight and clear answer and strategy for Silverlight instead of relegating it to "niche" environments. The .NET and Silverlight community is angry and you must give answers by actions - not words!

And why the hell is Microsoft touting plugin free version of Bing maps at this precise time? Rubbing salt into the wounds of Silverlight developers? Bing and MSN teams are partly to blame for slower adoption of Silverlight recently. They NEVER considered it with 100% commitment. Shame on Microsoft - destroying its own valuable asset.
11/3/2010 12:34 AM | # re: Silverlight is dead. Long live Silverlight!
How beautiful and attractive Silverlight might seem (as a technology) for many developers, my believe is that Microsoft's true intentions are driven by market-share, growth and ROI. As growth on potential customer-base for Silverlight might (continue to) fall short on (Microsoft's) expectations I don't see any other choice for MS CEO's to downsize on Silverlight investments in the near future (despite what they announce publicly to the outside world). It's THE only way to keep businesses healthy! And Microsoft certainly has become for that reason one of the most prosperous businesses in the world (and likes to stay in the future). This is (one has to realize as a developer) a whole other ballgame then e.g. open source which mainly thrives on willingness and enthusiasm of developers (and certainly is not dictated by big cash-flows!). To me the smartness lies in the fact how Microsoft's marketing guys going to position and continue to sell Silverlight in order to the gain the expected critical market share, and hence to get the continuation and further development of this remarkable cross platform product. My hope and contribution is it will be for many years as it gives my own investments in becoming a Silverlight developer a healthy ROI.
11/3/2010 1:10 AM | # re: Silverlight is dead. Long live Silverlight!
All I can say is that Microsoft is getting weaker, it is destroying itself. Now it is Silverlight in the future could be Microsoft itself. Many are beginning to lose confidence. It's too sad.
11/3/2010 7:42 AM | # re: Silverlight is dead. Long live Silverlight!
Too much time is passing Tim. With all due respect, we know that you and John are committed, but we need to hear from someone at a higher level...now.

We don't even know if they are paying attention to all of this.
11/3/2010 7:43 AM | # re: Silverlight is dead. Long live Silverlight!
You may be interested to know that "Silverlight is dead, it is for mobile phones only, Balmer said so" made it to the breaking news on a 24 hour news TV channel in Russia.

The damage is really great.
11/3/2010 9:36 AM | # re: Silverlight is dead. Long live Silverlight!

I hope everything will work out. I had the feeling SL was catching on and like many it's hard to sell a technology when the actual people creating it are chopping at its foundation (cross platform compatibilty)

Well even in the worst case, if Bob Muglia's words are to be taken at face value, him expressing his faith in HTML 5 then, is greatly similar to the faith that was spoken out over Silverlight, in the past 3 years.

Is Bob going to shift his HTML 5 vision then too in 3 years time?

11/3/2010 11:47 AM | # re: Silverlight is dead. Long live Silverlight!
Let me expound on a prior post, since the following comment was blocked from Bob Muglia's post (I can't believe they're filtering out comments!).

It's been a couple of days now and it's plainly obvious how severe the damage is that's been done. Microsoft's followers have lost a *lot* or faith as a result of this blunder, and I can't imagine what this has done to moral inside the walls of Microsoft this week.

We are patiently waiting for something to restore our confidence, but so far nothing. We can't wait until MIX for Microsoft to make this right. They have to do it *now*.

Let's see some action...the careers of many people are at stake. Cut Bob loose, or do whatever it is you need to do, but do it!
11/3/2010 12:17 PM | # re: Silverlight is dead. Long live Silverlight!
Truth is that this is nothing new. This has been talked about inside Microsoft for about year so for them this is nothing new.
11/3/2010 12:17 PM | # re: Silverlight is dead. Long live Silverlight!
Just to clarify, my previous call to action is directed at those above you Tim. We know that you are our ally and as much a victim of this mess as we are.
11/3/2010 12:24 PM | # re: Silverlight is dead. Long live Silverlight!
You're probably right Ricky, but based on this backlash they'd be wise to rethink the situation before they alienate those that have been faithful to them.

What they should've done is stated that they are still committed to Silverlight, now and moving forward, but that they are also committed to the future of a standards-based HTML5 framework...as it evolves over the next 12+ years. :-)
11/3/2010 12:32 PM | # re: Silverlight is dead. Long live Silverlight!
These decisions have been made long ago based on market data. Everyone on the inside MS knows that including Tim. I don't know about Silverlight team but WPF team has been gutted and is bare bones so don't expect anything much there.

Even Steve Jobs a master of secrecy revealed more about future product than Rob Relyea in WPF Today and Tomorrow PDC 2010 session. And the reason Rob had so little to say is that there is so little being actually worked on... Proof is in the pudding.

Don't look at what is being said, look at was it actually being done!
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11/3/2010 1:00 PM | # re: Silverlight is dead. Long live Silverlight!
yes, unfortunately Ricky's statement is the bottomline:

"Don't look at what is being said, look at was it actually being done!"

Microsoft has done nothing to restore confidence to their developer community and to restore Silverlight as a technology of the future. look at their own properties - Bing and MSN - shamelessly using Flash to date. bing maps shamelessly declaring we are working on a plug-in free maps at a wrong time. microsoft gave up on a superb technology. while embracing standards is one thing, but giving up on a superior technology (especially when the two can work in harmony) for web and rich internet applications is one of the worst decisions in recent times.
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11/3/2010 1:49 PM | # re: Silverlight is dead. Long live Silverlight!
My two cents.

Silverlight needs to move up the web food chain to be implemented as a plugin to being implemented on top of browser technology, and more importantly the managed JIT runtime and 2D/3D retained mode graphics system needs to move down the food chain into the browser itself.

Lets face it, the reason why most of us are upset about this is that we see Javascript as a very sub-optimal platform for building rich web apps. There needs to be a managed cross browser VM capable of providing services for .net, javascript, java and actionscript, and web-applications need to be built on top of this lower level platform.

If Silverlight is going to continue to be relevant, it ultimately needs to migrate to a platform that runs on top of web standards. Unfortunately I don't see that being practical with the current state of Javascript, SVG, and other lower level standards provided by HTML5. Google's java to Javascript compiler technology is just really NOT the way to go, I just can't imagine that this back-assed upsidedown development path where more efficient strongly typed java/.net code is compiled to dynamically typed TEXT javascript to run sub-optimally on all browsers is really the future.

If Microsoft wanted to re-invent the web, maybe it needs to move and get engaged in an effort to establish a better set of open web standards (particularly a .NET friendly managed embedded VM) which are friendly both to web developers and provide a platform on top of which technologies like Silverlight can thrive in the future.
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11/3/2010 5:04 PM | # re: Silverlight is dead. Long live Silverlight!
I loved silverlight, I lived in SL from last One and Half year, Worked hard day and night, I am not getting sleep by listening all these statements and frustated, I dont want to trust microsoft any more. Thanks Microsoft for awakening me earlier, instead of leaving me in the middle of the sea.

Now I am leaving not only Silverlight but also .NET too.

Moving to other technologies, it will cost me another 6 months, i dont bother by staying with inconsistent technology

With Tears

EX Silverlight Developer

11/4/2010 3:10 AM | # re: Silverlight is dead. Long live Silverlight!
Given that Silverlight has been used and marketed to developers for media streaming, OOB applications, RIA applications, LOB and Windows Phone Apps it really shouldn't surprise anyone that a statement of shifting focus is understood as saying one or more of those categories are about to be depreciated. This is especially true given recent statements and expressed interest from Microsoft about the technologies surrounding Html5. I'm curious, what is the focus change specifically?
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11/4/2010 7:44 AM | # re: Silverlight is dead. Long live Silverlight!
Integrate Silverlight into IE9. I read somewhere Chrome is doing the same with Flash. Show commitment to the platform by actions. SL5 must increase performance by a factor of an unbelievable amount.
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11/4/2010 9:36 AM | # re: Silverlight is dead. Long live Silverlight!
Last week at local meetup, former CTO said SL selected for his web project by investors. He was HTML/CSS/jQuery guru and was forced out. His prototype drag and drop demos got multi-$millions invested, but only if SL used caveat. CTO did not want to architect drag and drop SL in iframes for company web site application, and said so. Oh well, that is how it goes sometimes.
11/4/2010 11:21 AM | # re: Silverlight is dead. Long live Silverlight!
@Tim,
Do you or Bob or some one in the SL team that have correct authority publish roadmap for Silverlight. If you do that, it may clear up the confusion. We are just about to tip our toes on a multi-million dollar application that is life line for our department and I spent about two years making case to use SL OOB instead of Windows Forms and ASP.NET. I have few more months before we are fully immersed and at this point I am having second thoughts and strongly considering ASP.NET MVC2 + HTML5 + jQuery to save the headache.
11/4/2010 12:36 PM | # Silverlight LITE?
Perhaps MS should consider releasing a lightweight SL runtime for low power handheld devices. This make great sense, because these small screen interfaces normally use fancy animations with just a minimal input control set, and a lightweight runtime would allow MS to easily port SL to a large number of low power devices.

The apparent problem now is that SL is rather weighted with features -- many of which are appropriate only in larger screen environs, and this limits the potential device audience. This is likely why WP7 required a more robust engine. Perhaps a simple solution would be to offer WP7 with the full runtime, but publish lightweight runtimes for the rest of the mobile universe. This would give WP7 a control set edge, and at the same time, would allow most (efficiently coded) apps to cover the bulk of the device universe.

The iPhone and other market-significant proprietary boxes will quite likely be pressed by market forces or lawsuits into supporting runtimes, such as Flash and SL. A lightweight runtime option makes SL more palatable to these vendors, since they wish to protect product performance perceptions, but at the same, wish to enjoy revenues from app sales.

Worth considering?

11/4/2010 2:16 PM | # re: Silverlight is dead. Long live Silverlight!
My idea is MS should embrace Linux and extend it. That way SL truly becomes cross-platform in no time. But I am afraight mr.S.Ballmer won't like that idea very much.
11/4/2010 8:09 PM | # re: Silverlight is dead. Long live Silverlight!
I would personally like to see Silverlight make an appearance as a supported development enviornment on Xbox & Windows Media Center for the delivery of data-driven applications.

I also see a very strong future for Silverlight in the delivery of LoB apps. I'd love to know how many $ are spent on Internet facing web apps versus internal business application development. Surely in the latter environments Silverlight has a great deal to offer?
11/4/2010 10:29 PM | # re: Silverlight is dead. Long live Silverlight!
I am sorry Tim, but I think you are just being the good employee, and since it seems so fashionable these days to "throw people under the bus", why should it be different to you and other loyal MS slugs trying to put out the sires of fear.

Let's afce it, Ba;mer's managerment style bites, I think the company never rose to its great levels since he has been in charge.

Like many developers, I have invested time, energy and money into the SL, WPF technologies.

I have little choice to sligf along, but I have no faith in MS's loyalty to the development community.

I think it's time for smart developers to hedge their bets and shift to Android. I just have no more faith in MS doing right to the development community.
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11/4/2010 11:51 PM | # re: Silverlight is dead. Long live Silverlight!
Tim: Please inform the Silverlight team that the single MOST important feature we're looking for in Silverlight 5 is "performance". Silverlight has to load apps faster with almost ZERO memory leaks.

Silverlight Community: Silverlight isn't dead or going anywhere. Scott's blog post is sincere and brings back some confidence. Windows Phone 7 will be a hit (it is already in International markets) and there is great opportunity in that platform in addition to all the media and business app capabilities of Silverlight today on PCs and Macs. Just read that Dell and Home Depot will be giving Windows Phone 7 devices for their employees instead of Blackberry. This is good but, don't just stop there Microsoft, you need to make more deals like those, especially in banking, medical, government and consumer sectors.

www.informationweek.com/.../windows_phone_p.html
www.onwindows.com/.../Default.aspx
11/5/2010 8:53 AM | # re: Silverlight is dead. Long live Silverlight!
SL was the best thing to come out of Microsoft for corporate developers since VB, everything else including ASP.NET is a dog's dinner to develop in.
We seem forgotten about, you need brain size planet and google for days and rely on guru's blogs to get some new application framework actually working in the real world. Faster Bob gets a pink slip the better, at his level this is unacceptable ...time to reboot...
11/5/2010 11:31 AM | # re: Silverlight is dead. Long live Silverlight!
Why would you make a LOB app in SL if it's not available on iPads, which are currently all the rage among executive types?
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11/5/2010 11:57 AM | # re: Silverlight is dead. Long live Silverlight!
Executives don't use LOB apps for regular work. they mostly see reports and standard output in Excel or basic things online.
11/6/2010 9:33 AM | # re: Silverlight is dead. Long live Silverlight!
We’re developing a high-end project management suite, and found HTML/JS impossible to use for responsive interactive scheduling calculation, so we investigated Silverlight. We found that Silverlight outperforms HTML/JS by well over 100x in computation and rendering. The user experience of our Silverlight app offers clear advantage over the competitions HTML/JS apps both in performance and capability (for example, none offer real time cross-project resource leveling). The net-net of it being HTML/JS was simply inadequate for our application.

Silverlight provides a true client-side programming model, whereas HTML/JS is server centric, thus, they are two entirely different beasts. We certainly recommend Silverlight over HTML/JS for business app development where interactive graphics and complex client-side math is involved. On the other hand, HTML has been, and will remain the choice for generic web presence, for example, general use websites, advertising, etc.

We're happy to hear MS is committed to Silverlight - the very best client-side tool available. Scott Gu has just posted a confident summary of MS Silverlight commitment entitled "Silverlight Questions".
11/7/2010 6:26 AM | # re: Silverlight is dead. Long live Silverlight!
It's been a rough few days, but I'm happy to hear you guys are as committed as we are. We have invested a lot of time and effort with Silverlight on several projects, and this gives us confidence to continue with Silverlight.

My associates who has been programming for as long as I have (decades) are all extremely excited about Silverlight. We agree that the name should be "SilverBullet" as someone suggested here, because it is orders of magnitude more powerful than HTML/JS. You can't even compare the two, because SL has the abridged .Net library built in, which gives you enormous client-side power for biz apps, and the performance difference is surreal. SL is best development tool I have seen in decades, and the results blow the competition out of the water.

I think MSFT should make a strong official announcement with regards to SL commitment to repair the damage Muglia and Foley caused.

11/8/2010 8:54 AM | # re: Silverlight is dead. Long live Silverlight!
Laila Lofti (www.simple-talk.com/.../95540.aspx) has a more mature view on the matter. As an intranet application developer I am very, very happy with Silverlight.
11/8/2010 2:24 PM | # re: Silverlight is dead. Long live Silverlight!
I think what Microsoft fails to understand is that there is a lot of developers from a non web development background, who want an alternative to the whole Java/HTML/CSS mess and until a few days ago, Silverlight was shaping up quite nicely as that alternative.

This is not an insignificant market of developers and until today, Micrososft was the only one really playing as Adobe Air didn't cut it. Now Microsoft have taken that small, but growing and exclusively their own market and killed it. Ironically pushing WP7 over the cliff with it, as this group of developers were the most likely to extend their support to WP7.

What is needed is simply Silverlight on Windows, Android and Mac PC's. Add that and a five to ten year road map and Silverlight had a very healthy and viable future. In the end if all Microsoft can offer me is a niche Silverlight runtime and the same HTML5 tools as everyone else for web development, why would I pay for the Microsoft product?

Silverlight was/is an opportunity squandered, by executives clearly more interested in the finances this year and next, rather then building a platform and a company. This is not how Microsoft got to where it is today and it won't support Microsoft longterm either. I suspect this will be a footnote in the story of the decline in Microsofts influence in the development community.

Dan
11/10/2010 8:54 AM | # re: Silverlight is dead. Long live Silverlight!
Silverlight has so many advantages over HTML; however, it has an Achilles heel of market penetration - without significant (above 90%) market penetration on desktop browsers Silverlight will not survive on the desktop and if Silverlight does not survive on the desktop, it certainly will not survive on WP7.

Silverlight is the major reason to develop on WP7 so the lack of desktop browsers penetration will mean that Silverlight will not survive on WP7 which means WP7 will not survive.

Silverlight can only survive if Microsoft enthusiastically supports Silverlight with both a major marketing and engineering effort - the lack of marketing support from Microsoft is very discouraging!

Silverlight does not need to run everywhere - just on the most in-demand browser/platforms (Android is an in-demand platform - Slates will make iPad less important).

Silverlight has so many advantages over HTML:

- State on the client's machine is huge
- Great user responses on the client machine without a round trip to the server
- Great language support such as C#
- Great libraries
- Great development tools

Reality is not nearly as important as perception - and the perception right now is that Microsoft will support HTML 5 over Silverlight which will kill Silverlight.

Microsoft must fully support HTML 5; however, at the same time Microsoft need to enthusiastically support Silverlight as a much better more capable technology.

Microsoft is making a very serious blunder if they allow Silverlight to die.

David Roh
11/10/2010 11:44 AM | # re: Silverlight is dead. Long live Silverlight!
I made a choice NOT to waste my time with Silverlight for one reason: I just don’t think the effort Microsoft has put in making .NET great for linux/unix is sufficient.
Since Silverlight depends on .NET this is the barrier to cross platform support. I will never ever make the mistake again of confusing Microsoft only technology with internet friendly technology, this is a rookie mistake and you are all clearly rookies (or were when you started down this path). Don’t get me wrong, I am sure your Silverlight experience will apply to WPF, but don’t pretend you are web programmers. I have no doubt Silverlight may be the most brilliantly architected platform ever. I have no doubt Flash is one of the crappiest. That doesn’t matter.
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11/11/2010 2:14 PM | # re: Silverlight is dead. Long live Silverlight!
@Ashley Frank: Why should microsoft put efforts in making .NET work on linux? microsoft has nothing to gain by that. linux by itself is just 1% market share. whats this big fuss about freaking linux? people making big noise over the internet for peanuts share OS?! besides, if you didnt know there is already an effort called MONO and Moonlight for linux and dont talk or make judegements about silverlight when you nothing about it.
11/11/2010 6:46 PM | # 89% of statistics are lies
Tom:
First: MANY people don't believe in the 1% linux myth. I Have 2 netbooks purchased with windows 7 starter I formatted both without booting them and run Linux on them. I'm counted as 2 windows users. Just because MS uses its influence to push vendors doesn't make it true.

Second: Android uses the linux kernal it's WAY more than 1% isn't it???

Third: Many devices (dvd players TV's DVR's use Linux)

Fourth: Ever been to a university Engineering dept? Physics dept? A Biochemical research facility? A LOT more than 1% Linux!

Fifth: Who wants a proprietary standard when an Open standard is available? Do you really think Apple is going to push for Silverlight? Remember IE6? Java(the MS version?)

Bob Muglia, Microsoft’s SVP of the Server and Tools Business :“HTML is the only true cross platform solution for everything, including (Apple’s) iOS platform,”

Even MS can read the writing on the wall.
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11/12/2010 7:51 AM | # re: Silverlight is dead. Long live Silverlight!
@Trollicus: so, now we should believe in your beliefs as a matter of fact vs. all the professional companies out there stating the numbers and stats?! what you listed out is still 1% vs. hundreds of millions if not billions of machines that run windows.

First: if you run linux on 2 netbooks purchased with windows - you are completely to blame for it. why would you do such a thing when there are plenty of linux netbooks out there?! i dont believe you are being honest here.

Second: i was talking about PCs - not mobile devices

Third: many cars (fords) use windows OS for their entertainment/navigation devices as well

Fourth: have been to several top 10 engineering schools in the US - last i could estimate - there were still more windows machines than macs or linux machines. step into the real world and businesses or enterprise use windows. why is that?

Fifth: open standards are slow, tedious, and more importantly - needlessly difficult to implement. create a lot of bugs and issues (dont tell me you have never seen javascript erros on websites on the internet). even this blog has a javascript (json) bug in IE 9 beta.

Bob Muglia made a mistake with his choice of words. he has since apologized twice. what do you want from the guy?

i dont have anything against html5. but clearly you cant compare silverlight with html5. the former is a beauty and the latter is a beast.
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11/12/2010 1:12 PM | # re: Silverlight is dead. Long live Silverlight!
Hi Tim - If Silverlight compliments HTML5, why not release it as part of IE9 install? That way you would reach far-reaching audiences and also there would be no problem for anyone to tout Silverlight as a solution for any web project. Also this would prove that MS is solidly behind Silverlight.

I know its not your decision, but still you might know the reason for 'why not'.

Regards,
Joe
11/20/2010 11:57 AM | # re: Silverlight is dead. Long live Silverlight!
The thing Microsoft has to gain is big and that is attracting developers that need to target the widest range of users possible. And while this often means very few Linux users, the reality is that many of those users are opinion makers and meme shapers. There is some nerd sitting there with his Ubuntu trying to watch Star Trek porn on a Silverlight app cursing that Mono/Moonlight is several versions behind and isn’t working. That guy is more likely to get off his butt and invent/contribute/support some cross platform solution than those 99% Windows users and knowing this type of person I doubt they would contribute to Mono. ActiveX controls that ran in the browser basically served the same purpose as Silverlight and COM had cross platform aspirations. It is clear there is a gap that Silverlight fills, what is now being acknowledged is that the propaganda thus far was a bit overreaching. For many of us the WWW is the only game in town and while we are happy as Microsoft developers, we do not even come close to controlling how this WWW platform works, hence the quick adoption of ASP MVC. Many Silverlight developers thought they were making an end run around this reality… some of them are waking up.
11/20/2010 2:45 PM | # re: Silverlight is dead. Long live Silverlight!
I have to be honest, I was excited about getting a windows phone 7, and developing for it using silverlight. However, after what I've been dealing with, just to be able to use an app I made on my phone, I'm less than impressed. No background processes? I have to pay $99 in order to register, and use my own apps? No thanks, I'll look into moonlight or some other alternative while I develop for my droid x phone that I get after returning my lousy windows phone 7. I mean the WP7 phones can't even compare...its very disappointing. Honestly, maybe you shouldn't have moved Tim.
11/23/2010 10:59 AM | # re: Silverlight is dead. Long live Silverlight!
Woohoo. I was right: www.neowin.net/.../silverlight-is-far-from-dead...

Great, great stuff. Now, if you could just update Windows Media Center to use XAML as the markup we'd be good to go! :D
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11/29/2010 3:41 PM | # re: Silverlight is dead. Long live Silverlight!
I agree with Joe T! Why should developers have to pay $99 to deploy apps to their own phones for purposes of testing? Microsoft should have thought this out well before implementing this unfair system.
12/8/2010 8:53 AM | # re: Silverlight is dead. Long live Silverlight!
Html5 == Anti 3rd party Plug-In (flash, silverlight, etcs) No make sense if M$ push HTML5 and silverlight ?????
12/9/2010 11:05 AM | # re: Silverlight is dead. Long live Silverlight!
Commitment or not, this is very damaging to Silverlight. This was poorly presented from the initial announcement, and to be honest the argument in the link above is not that convinceing. I spent the last two years working with WPF in our next generation product. It has ALWAYS been a goal to develop a silverlight version. I have been very excited for that project, now management backing off the idea. I work for a large corparation (50,000 employees world wide), and if they are backing off then imagine all the other companies who do the same. I feel like my WPF skills are half as valuable now.
12/21/2010 3:21 AM | # selfprep
i really hope for you that your private move does pay off, though i have my serious doubts.

That half-hearty trial to excuse doesn't rebuild the trust, it's not more than an eyewash, to minimize the damage.

If not direct strong actions (not just the normal MS marketing blurb words) to full re-establish SL will follow, the trust stays away...
david bill @70-648
6/10/2011 1:43 PM | # re: Silverlight is dead. Long live Silverlight!
Fast forward six months. Still glad that you moved?

 
Please add 6 and 6 and type the answer here:

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